My Lincolnwood Story- Norman Kremen

Julie Kremen talks with her father, Norman, about living in Lincolnwood. Mr. Kremen has lived in Lincolnwood for 55 years. Julie and Norman reminisce on the years spent in Lincolnwood, as well as other experiences, most notably the various countries he has visited over the course of his life. 

The views and opinions expressed in interviews do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the Lincolnwood Public Library, including its Board of Trustees and staff.



TRANSCRIPT:

Julie Kremen  0:00  
Hi, my name is Julie Kremen and I'm interviewing my father. Here's my father; his name is...

Norman Kremen  0:06  
Norman Kremen.

Julie Kremen  0:09  
My father bought the house I grew up in, in Lincolnwood, in 1964. It was a little bit before I was born. In 1964 - we actually just looked this up - we went into our files, and we found out that you paid...how much did you pay for the house in 1962? 

Norman Kremen  0:25  
About $25,000.

Julie Kremen  0:27  
$25,000. Now in Lincolnwood, today, can you get anything for $25,000? Maybe you could get or a buy a garage. He still lives in the house. Now it's 2019. So do the math. I think it's 55 years; it's a lot of time in the same house in Lincolnwood. My father has seen a lot of changes through the years. Are you happy that you live in Lincolnwood?

Norman Kremen  0:50  
Very much; very satisfying.

Julie Kremen  0:52  
Do you think if you were to live your life over you would not live in Lincolnwood?

Norman Kremen  0:56  
Say that, again?

Julie Kremen  0:57  
If you were to live your life over, would you maybe live somewhere else? Or you're happy that you chose Lincolnwood?

Norman Kremen  1:01  
I wouldn't know unless I lived some other places to make the comparison. [Laughter]

Julie Kremen  1:06  
Okay, fair enough. It's interesting, some of the changes that we've seen in Lincolnwood. When I think about when I lived here, the biggest thing that comes up for me is...I don't know the year, but it was maybe the late 1970s, early 1980s. Dad, do you remember when all the community got the Dutch Elm disease? Because most of the trees in Lincolnwood were Elm trees. They all got this horrible disease called Dutch Elm. Do you remember what happened on our street?

Norman Kremen  1:38  
There was a lot of funerals of the trees.

Julie Kremen  1:41  
[Laughter] They came to chop our tree down. You could say I'm a tree hugger because I literally went to the tree and I hugged it. I looked at the people who were there to cut it down. I said, "You can't have this tree. It's my tree." We argued, but they eventually chopped our tree down. It was very sad. Our block and most of Lincolnwood was really bare for many, many, many years. I remember, Dad, do you remember they came and they asked us we could choose what kind of tree they were going to replace it with? Remember?

Norman Kremen  2:14  
No.

Julie Kremen  2:14  
Some will some of the trees on our street now are different species. Our street doesn't have all the same trees anymore. Right? It has different ones.

Norman Kremen  2:23  
I've never made an exploration.

Julie Kremen  2:28  
[Overlapping] You don't remember? 

Julie Kremen  2:28  
Lincolnwood did that because they figured that if we ever got another disease in the area, at least not every tree would die because they were all the same tree. Anyways, that was one of the beautiful things that my dad wanted to live in Lincolnwood because it was beautiful with all these trees. It was gorgeous. You used to say it was like an umbrella. Remember, you come down the street was like an umbrella of trees? 

Norman Kremen  2:49  
Yeah, yeah.

Julie Kremen  2:50  
Is there anything you can think of that you remember from the early days of living in Lincolnwood?

Norman Kremen  2:56  
Say again?

Julie Kremen  2:56  
Is there anything you can think of from the early days of living in Lincolnwood that stands out in your mind?

Norman Kremen  3:02  
Well, there were more children on our block where we lived.

Julie Kremen  3:06  
That's true. Remember what we did at night, we used to play games like...

Norman Kremen  3:10  
[Overlapping] Outside, you used to play games. Yeah. 

Julie Kremen  3:13  
Olly olly ocean free. We had what, like 10 or 15 kids on our block?

Norman Kremen  3:18  
That's right. 

Julie Kremen  3:19  
That's exciting. 

Norman Kremen  3:20  
It's a different type of block today. 

Julie Kremen  3:22  
Yeah. Very, very different. 

Norman Kremen  3:23  
[Overlapping] Bunch of adults. 

Julie Kremen  3:24  
[Overlapping] Yeah, not that much...

Norman Kremen  3:25  
Kids are't there.

Julie Kremen  3:26  
Yeah, not on our block. Other blocks. Those are some of our early memories of Lincolnwood. The other thing, that to me was kind of a big thing, is when we got a swimming pool, remember? 

Norman Kremen  3:38  
Yeah.

Julie Kremen  3:39  
That was kind of fun. You used to swim in it. Remember, you would go and do laps?

Norman Kremen  3:42  
Yes. No, you are right, and the physical activities change.

Julie Kremen  3:50  
Yeah, we used to go to Proesel Park for Halloween; it was a big festival. Fireworks, I think, was a big festival. My dad has lived in Lincolnwood a long time. But these days, the two things that he loves to do are play rummy cube.

Norman Kremen  4:11  
Well, interact with other people. That's one way of interacting.

Julie Kremen  4:15  
That's true. Our block has an annual block party. The Village of Lincolnwood, we call them up, and we get a special permit. They block off our street. We have a lot of people of different ethnicities on our block. We have people from Cuba; we have people from Greece. We have people from Ukraine. We have people from Lebanon; we have people from Pakistan. We have people from Japan; we have people from Korea. We love the diversity in our block. It's a potluck so everybody brings food, and we all get to know our neighbors.

Norman Kremen  4:48  
Yeah, we block off the street, and have the tables right in the middle of the street. 

Julie Kremen  4:52  
We do. Didn't the fire department come and let the people climb...?

Norman Kremen  4:57  
Yeah, we toured the fire...

Julie Kremen  5:00  
The fire engines. That's kind of a nice thing. That's kind of a nice thing for Lincolnwood. But my dad loves this game called rummy cube. Do you want to explain what rummy cube is?

Norman Kremen  5:11  
Yeah, I do.

Julie Kremen  5:13  
No, explain what it is.

Norman Kremen  5:15  
You have tiles, and your object is to get rid of them. You have certain procedures in the game, and you hope to get rid of them.

Julie Kremen  5:26  
How often do you play rummy cube?

Norman Kremen  5:28  
A minimum of once a week.

Julie Kremen  5:30  
 But if you had it your way would you play every day?

Norman Kremen  5:34  
Yeah, for a small amount of time. It's a challenging game.

Julie Kremen  5:39  
The other thing my dad loves to do is walk every day. He's 92 years old. Every day he walks in the Lincolnwood Mall to keep fit.

Norman Kremen  5:48  
That's right.

Julie Kremen  5:48  
Do you remember when the Lincolnwood Mall was going to open up, and how people didn't want the Mall? Remember? 

Norman Kremen  5:53  
Yes. 

Julie Kremen  5:54  
What did people have in their windows? Remember? They put signs up? 

Norman Kremen  5:58  
Yes.

Julie Kremen  5:58  
What did the sign say?

Norman Kremen  5:59  
I don't remember.

Julie Kremen  6:00  
They made the symbol of do not enter; no mall. People did not want the Lincolnwood Mall. They protested because they thought it would trash the community. But are you happy that the Mall is there?

Norman Kremen  6:12  
Yeah, very happy. It's very convenient. 

Julie Kremen  6:15  
Yeah.

Norman Kremen  6:15  
A lot of the facilities are very convenient.

Julie Kremen  6:18  
Yeah. The temperature is always the same. He goes every day of the year. 

Norman Kremen  6:21  
I remember what was there before. 

Julie Kremen  6:23  
What was there before?

Norman Kremen  6:25  
A company.

Julie Kremen  6:27  
Oh, was it Bell & Howell? 

Norman Kremen  6:29  
Yes.

Julie Kremen  6:29  
Bell & Howell. They made slide projectors and things like that. But people didn't want it. They did not want that Mall. I'm really happy the Mall is there. My father and my mother started what they call the "Mall Walking Club," remember? 

Norman Kremen  6:44  
Yes. 

Julie Kremen  6:45  
What they would do is everybody would chip in $1 every week and they would all buy lottery tickets together as a group, remember?

Norman Kremen  6:55  
Yeah.

Julie Kremen  6:55  
They actually signed contracts because legally you could get in big trouble if the ticket actually wins. I think my mother was the administrator of the lottery. But my dad has met a lot of his very close friends from that mall. Isn't that true?

Norman Kremen  7:09  
Yeah.

Julie Kremen  7:10  
I think that's how you met Leroy, Maxine...

Norman Kremen  7:12  
[Overlapping] Many people, many people. It became a social thing, too. 

Julie Kremen  7:17  
Yeah. That's one of the nice things we like about Lincolnwood is that it has the Mall. 

Norman Kremen  7:22  
Okay.

Julie Kremen  7:22  
Sometimes he goes to the Mall, and plays rummy cube there. They wanted to hear some funny stories and interesting stories. How about how many countries you've traveled to?

Norman Kremen  7:33  
Well, 118.

Julie Kremen  7:35  
Do you have a favorite?

Norman Kremen  7:37  
United States?

Julie Kremen  7:39  
Very good. I haven't been to 118; I've been over 50. But there's one country I've been to that you haven't been to, and you're very jealous of me. Do you know what the country is? 

Norman Kremen  7:50  
No.

Julie Kremen  7:50  
Do you remember?

Norman Kremen  7:51  
Where?

Julie Kremen  7:52  
I'm going to give you a hint. You tried to go there once on a cruise ship. You couldn't because I think the weather was bad, and they wouldn't let the ship come.

Norman Kremen  8:01  
Europe?

Julie Kremen  8:02  
Yes. In Europe. It's near Greece.

Norman Kremen  8:04  
Albania?

Julie Kremen  8:05  
Yes! I've been Albania. My father hasn't, so he's jealous of me. It's kind of funny. But what are the five countries you really want to go to? 

Norman Kremen  8:15  
The five countries? 

Julie Kremen  8:16  
Yeah, you know, the five... 

Norman Kremen  8:18  
The stands?

Julie Kremen  8:18  
 Yeah. What are the names of the stands?

Norman Kremen  8:20  
Oh, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Kazakhstan, and Kurdistan.

Julie Kremen  8:27  
It's hard to pronounce them. So those are the five stands. And then the three...

Norman Kremen  8:31  
Uzbekistan. 

Julie Kremen  8:33  
[Overlapping] Uzbekistan.

Julie Kremen  8:34  
Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, and Urzikstan. Then the three that are called the caucus countries that are nearby. Do you know those other three countries you want to go?

Norman Kremen  8:49  
Oh God, I forgot. Austri...?

Julie Kremen  8:50  
No, no. Where's.... 

Norman Kremen  8:51  
Georgia? 

Julie Kremen  8:52  
Yeah, yeah.

Norman Kremen  8:54  
Oh, I can't think of...

Julie Kremen  8:56  
Azerbaijan.

Norman Kremen  8:58  
Azerbaijan. 

Julie Kremen  8:58  
And Armenia.

Norman Kremen  9:00  
Armenia. Yeah.

Julie Kremen  9:04  
My father has taken a lot of cruises, at least 40, 50. Pretty much every destination that a cruise ship goes to by water you've been to. The only countries he has left are ones that are landlocked. I don't think you're going to be going anytime soon to Central Africa, right? Like Republic of Congo. I don't think that's on the list.

Norman Kremen  9:27  
Well, all continents I've been on.

Julie Kremen  9:30  
He's been to Antarctica twice. Right? 

Norman Kremen  9:32  
Where?

Julie Kremen  9:32  
You've been to Antarctica twice.

Norman Kremen  9:34  
Yeah.

Julie Kremen  9:36  
My dad loves to drive. He's 92 years old and he drives every day, right? Don't you drive every day?

Norman Kremen  9:42  
Yeah. 

Julie Kremen  9:42  
Every day. He's probably a better driver than people that are younger. A lot of people just work from home and they only maybe drive...

Norman Kremen  9:48  
I've driven in 50 states.

Julie Kremen  9:50  
Yeah. You know what my father used to do? He still does it, but he is what's called an amateur radio operator, a ham radio operator. He used to have a mobile antenna on the car. He would drive all around. We used to do vacations all around America. He would talk in the car to countries all over the globe while we were cruising the highways of America.

Norman Kremen  10:15  
Yes.

Julie Kremen  10:15  
One time we went to Israel. Remember this? You brought it with, and you were broadcasting from Israel, a special mobile. 

Norman Kremen  10:22  
I don't remember. [Laughter]

Julie Kremen  10:24  
He did. How many countries have you worked on your radio?

Norman Kremen  10:29  
Oh, that I don't know. I have to look that up. Because some of the places were not considered countries, but they're considered places.

Julie Kremen  10:39  
Yeah, 'cause they have these contests. Sometimes with the contest, they go to what's called an atoll, a little island that's uninhabited. You can try to work them, and get a special award. Describe how many awards do you think you have?

Norman Kremen  10:53  
Oh, God. They're all over the wall.

Julie Kremen  10:56  
He has a little room in the basement, his little workshop, and the entire walls are covered with these awards. One is worked all states; one is worked all Canadian provinces; one is worked all Europe; worked all continents. What's your callsign?

Norman Kremen  11:13  
Whiskey. Nine. Alpha. Charlie. Echo.

Julie Kremen  11:18  
Give us an example of when you turn on your radio, when you tune in and you want to try to talk to somebody, what do you say? What's your little thing that you say?

Norman Kremen  11:26  
Well, most of my communication is due to a contest.

Julie Kremen  11:31  
Ok, let's pretend there's a contest right now. Describe a sample of what a contest would be.

Norman Kremen  11:39  
Well, working all nations. 

Julie Kremen  11:42  
Okay. 

Norman Kremen  11:42  
Or working countries in Europe. 

Julie Kremen  11:45  
Okay, so let's say there's a contest right now.

Norman Kremen  11:47  
[Overlapping] Or in Asia, you know.

Julie Kremen  11:48  
What would you say on the radio when you turn it in?

Norman Kremen  11:51  
Well, you hear somebody calling, and you answer them.

Julie Kremen  11:54  
So what do you say when you hear someone calling you?

Norman Kremen  11:56  
You give them your ID.

Julie Kremen  11:58  
Just for the people who are listening who have no idea. 

Norman Kremen  12:01  
So basically...

Julie Kremen  12:03  
Just give an example because the people listening don't know how it goes.

Norman Kremen  12:07  
Well, they're asking for countries or people.

Julie Kremen  12:11  
But don't they usually...?

Norman Kremen  12:12  
You answer that's all. 

Julie Kremen  12:12  
But don't you usually go Hello, CQ. Hello, CQ.

Norman Kremen  12:16  
That's if you're looking for countries. 

Julie Kremen  12:18  
Let's pretend you're looking. How do you say it?

Norman Kremen  12:20  
That's about it, you know.

Julie Kremen  12:22  
But then you have a whole thing you say; you say this is alpha?

Norman Kremen  12:26  
It depends. You can get into all kinds of different conversations, if you like: where you're located, different aspects of your radio activities, you know, that type of thing.

Julie Kremen  12:40  
I think I could be mistaken, but I think there's people you became kind of friendly with that you eventually visited. I think. I think that happened.

Norman Kremen  12:47  
Anyhow.

Julie Kremen  12:49  
He's talked to people all over the world.

Norman Kremen  12:51  
{Overlapping] Yeah.

Julie Kremen  12:51  
He himself has been all over the world. 

Norman Kremen  12:53  
Yeah. 

Norman Kremen  12:55  
Two interesting things that my dad did because he loves to drive. It was before I was born; I think it was 19, maybe 61. The Pan American highway opened up, which went all the way down to Panama or maybe just Costa Rica. I don't know if it got all the way to Panama. What happened when it opened up? You wanted to go, right? 

Norman Kremen  13:21  
Yeah, we went.

Julie Kremen  13:23  
Describe how that was.

Norman Kremen  13:26  
Adventurous.

Julie Kremen  13:29  
But remember, you told me there was only one gas station in each country?

Norman Kremen  13:33  
Oh, yeah, there wasn't too much activity at all, auto-wise. The road was there, and that was it.

Julie Kremen  13:39  
The first paved road that went all the way down. In Mexico, there was probably gas stations every 100 or so miles. Once you got to Guatemala, you told me only one gas station in the entire country. He said Honduras had one. Nicaragua. He had to really plan. On the way back, you told me that you left Guatemala, and you just hit Chiapas, which is the furthest southern part of Mexico. And what happened? Do you remember what happened? 

Norman Kremen  14:07  
No. 

Julie Kremen  14:09  
Well, you had to come back to Chicago because it was the summer. Your summer was ending, and you had to get back to work because you had the summer off. 

Julie Kremen  14:15  
Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Julie Kremen  14:16  
What happened was my parents had already blown one of the spare tires. Then you blew the other tire. Now, you were stuck. Do you remember this? 

Norman Kremen  14:25  
No. 

Julie Kremen  14:26  
They were stuck. It was getting dark; it was about to get dark. They're in a rural area. Mexico, southern Mexico; it's never been safe. In the early 60s, you told me, there was no cars on the road. Occasionally, you would see a semi-. He told me all of a sudden a car came and stopped. It was a married couple, and they had their chauffeur. My mother knew a little "chicken" Spanish, but they spoke a little English. Conversation ensued, and they said, "Do you need help?" They pointed at the tire and they go,  "Llanta! Llanta!" because in Spanish llanta is tire. "Llanta, no bueno! Tire, no good!" This really nice couple took them in their car with a chauffeur; they were obviously very wealthy. As they're driving, they're like, "We'll help you." They're driving back to their estate or whatever. The woman was sitting next to my mom in the backseat, and she pulls out a gun. Not pointing it at my mother, but showing her. She said, "Ladronis, ladronis," which in Spanish means thieves. Or banditos, banditos. I think she said, "Banditos. I have this for protection." It's the wild, wild west down there in the 60s in Mexico. That's a pretty interesting thing that you're with these strangers, and they pull out a gun. They took my parents to their home in Chiapas. The two daughters, one of them was nine years old, and one of them was 11. They went to private school, so they were fluent in English. The two children helped translate. The parents said, "We're gonna take your dad with my husband, and we're going to go get a new tire. Then we'll drive them back. We'll help you, and get your car fixed." They were very, very nice and very friendly. My mom really bonded with the nine year old, and the 11 year old, or maybe they were a little older. They came back, and they insisted that they stay in their house. My mom ended up being pen pals with the nine year old. That relationship lasted at least 40 years. In the 1990s, when Chiapas was having a civil war going on, they wrote to my parents. It's before the internet. They said, "Will you take our children? Will you help them if things get really bad?" What happened was the nine year old ended up marrying a man who became the governor of Chiapas. This was a civil war going on in his territory there. In his state of Mexico. It never came to them; the children coming to my parents. I went to Guatemala in...I've been four times. The second time I went, I believe, was around 2000, or 2001. My mom put me into contact with the nine year old who was now 49, or whatever she was. Long story short, she invited me to come and stay at their home. Now, when they picked my parents up in 1960, or 61, they were already pretty wealthy. They have a car and a chauffeur and a beautiful home. They won the Mexican lottery, and they got even wealthier. Then she married a man who became the governor. These people had a lot of money. She invited me to come. What happened was, she sent her driver to pick me up at the border of Guatemala. Somehow, I took a bus or something; I arrived at the border of Guatemala. This is, I think, 2001 or 2000. They picked me up. The man told me - it was a really nice car; it was a van with air conditioning - it was automatic car. He said, "Oh, we rented this just for you." Because in Mexico, it's very common to only have a standard, a stick shift. It's pretty rare, very expensive. Not that many people have a have an automatic. They rented it just for me. Then they bring me to the home, and she wasn't even there. It was this chauffeur/caretaker guy and a cook, and they treated me like royalty. But the one who was 11 years old, when my mom met her, she lived next door. Basically the two of them, the two sisters, had an entire city square block. You wouldn't know from the outside because down in southern Mexico and Guatemala, and these places, they're all colonial style towns. By the way, the name of town is San Cristobal de Las Cosas. That's the town that they live in. They have this colonial style architecture, and you can't tell from the outside how big of a property the person owns. So you wouldn't know from the outside they actually own the entire city square block, but between the two sisters they did. They had this big dinner in my honor. They have the family over, and I got to meet a lot of these people. It's kind of an interesting story; kind of comes full circle that I met them. I know my dad has a lot of other fun travel stories, but we've been talking for too long. Maybe we just wrap it up unless you have anything else to say? You have anything else to say?

Norman Kremen  19:26  
No. I'm listening to you! [Laughter] It's very interesting. I don't remember all the details.

Julie Kremen  19:33  
I think you've enjoyed living in Lincolnwood, and I think you're really happy that you raised me and my brother there. 

Norman Kremen  19:40  
[Overlapping] Well...

Julie Kremen  19:41  
[Overlapping] It's a very good place to grow up.

Norman Kremen  19:41  
You can't compare it to any other place unless you lived in another place. 

Julie Kremen  19:46  
Yeah. 

Norman Kremen  19:47  
That way you can make comparison. 

Julie Kremen  19:49  
Yeah.

Norman Kremen  19:49  
But we lived in Lincolnwood all these years; over half a century, you know.

Julie Kremen  19:57  
A long time.

Norman Kremen  19:57  
Life has changed in general. Lincolnwood has gotten older.

Julie Kremen  20:03  
Yeah, Lincolnwood's matured. 

Norman Kremen  20:07  
There's pluses and minuses. The newest is the street lighting.

Julie Kremen  20:13  
Yeah, my dad has a lot to say about the street lighting. 

Norman Kremen  20:15  
Yeah.

Julie Kremen  20:16  
You're happy with the current street lighting? Because you weren't happy at first. Didn't they change some of it?

Norman Kremen  20:23  
Oh, it's fine.

Julie Kremen  20:24  
But you didn't like it at first; you thought it was ...

Norman Kremen  20:26  
What, the new lighting? 

Julie Kremen  20:27  
No. But before, you thought it was too dim.

Norman Kremen  20:29  
[Overlapping] You're right; you're right. It was.

Julie Kremen  20:30  
[Overlapping] You were upset about that. 

Norman Kremen  20:32  
Now it's much better.

Julie Kremen  20:33  
He's really happy about that. 

Norman Kremen  20:34  
Yeah. 

Julie Kremen  20:35  
Now they just got to work on the potholes.

Norman Kremen  20:38  
A lot of the major streets are getting new lights. 

Julie Kremen  20:41  
That's great. 

Norman Kremen  20:42  
Cicero, I believe and McCormick. They're getting new lights. And Devon; west on Devon. They're getting new lights.

Julie Kremen  20:53  
My dad's really into this light thing. He keeps track of it. 

Norman Kremen  20:58  
That's it.

Julie Kremen  20:58  
It's important.

Julie Kremen  21:00  
All right. Well, thank you for allowing me to interview you.

Norman Kremen  21:04  
Yeah. It was a good experience. You had a good experience in school.

Julie Kremen  21:09  
I did.

Norman Kremen  21:11  
You know, you and your brother both.

Julie Kremen  21:13  
There's definitely worse schools I could have gone to.

Norman Kremen  21:15  
You made a lot of friends. 

Norman Kremen  21:17  
Yeah.

Julie Kremen  21:19  
Lincolnwood schools were good.

Norman Kremen  21:22  
That's it. 

Julie Kremen  21:23  
That's it.